Searching For Teams To Sponsor!

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Re: Searching For Teams To Sponsor!

Postby gaz » Fri Oct 01, 2010 9:00 am

Sorry to go on topic, but could somebody from vimflow please confirm it's an elaborate piss take?
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Re: Searching For Teams To Sponsor!

Postby Dave » Fri Oct 01, 2010 2:11 pm

Scott, I didn't say the effects of weight training were short term, I said the advantage was short term. If you focus on one area then you're going to have to focus on other areas afterwards to even it out. Narrowly focused training results in a short term advantage in one area at a cost to development in other areas. You don't get something for nothing.

You don't think the sacrifice is a problem. Some people do. It depends on what the person wants; weights are not universally beneficial for Parkour practitioners.


Peter, one of the biggest myths in the Parkour community is that physically strengthening your body decreases the chance of injury when practising Parkour. It doesn't.

There are essentially two problems:

1) If the demands remain constant then improvement in physical ability will make you safer, but in Parkour the demands never remain constant. As you get stronger the demands increase. Parkour involves constantly pushing yourself, exploring your boundaries and trying to get past them.
Sure, a 3 foot drop to landing will be safer with strong legs than with weak legs, but if you have strong legs then you're going to be practising with a 5 foot drop, not a 3 foot drop. The physical danger comes from the physical challenge. If you're physically stronger then your training will be more physically dangerous.
The only way to stay safe is to not attempt things that you can't handle. It all comes down to judgement.
Mental strengthening, the ability to asses our abilities, to assess the situation, to resist outside pressures, to deal with fear, to be honest with ourselves; these are the things that keep us safe. These are the things that determine what we attempt.

2) You can't develop the ability to 'assess movement situations' separately like you can with 'physical strength'. You need to be involved in movement situations to learn about them and learn to deal with them. To learn to deal with physically challenging movement you need to practise physically challenging movement. You need to be working at your physical limit, meaning the demands of the movements you're using are just as near your limit as they would be if you were physically weaker.

The chances of making a mistake and pushing too hard are the same whether you're strong or weak, physically. The only difference is that if you're physically strong the consequences of making a mistake are greater, because the movement is more physically dangerous.
The safest way to learn how to practise safely is to learn it first, before you physically strengthen. Mental strength before physical strength.

There is no doubt that you can strengthen everything you need to without using weights. Just try and do the things you want to do. If you want to get better at small drops you practise small drops. Every living thing has been functioning and improving that way since life began.
The unproven method of improvement is one of separating training and living, training using abstract methods like lifting weights or even Parkour to some degree. On the evolutionary scale that's a very recent human invention that has been introduced to enable greater specialisation, and specialisation only works when things are good. Throughout the natural world, the specialists are the ones that die out earliest when there's a problem. Adaptability wins in the long run every time.

For some people who are already very unbalanced the only way to regain some kind of overall balance might be to train in an unbalanced way. That's essentially what Parkour is. It's unbalanced training designed to combat the existing imbalances in human society.

It seems to me that if people are physically weak then they will be mentally weak also, because you need the physical training to develop mental strength.


Gaz, we might as well get something useful out of this topic. :)
~ Dave

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Re: Searching For Teams To Sponsor!

Postby Peter_M » Sat Oct 02, 2010 5:54 pm

I agree with you that, in overall, adaptability is favorable over specialism. I will not argue with you over that.

However, in human movement some loads are more common than others. So training specifically to cope with these loads would make sense. I’m talking of course about landings and the moments they cause around the lower back, hip and knee joints.

If you want to have strength gains, you will have to do movement at a level which you are physically just capable of doing. Thus to prepare adequately for these moments with only the use of bodyweight, you will have to do drops or plyometric jumps at your maximum ability. This will bring forth a risk of overtraining, overreaching and many more severe injuries because this maximum ability isn’t always clear.

Wouldn’t it be better (or at least safer), to train at a level where you can move with control? With movement like climbing this can go hand in hand, but with landing ability this is not the case. Movement which challenges you maximally in terms of technique and control and strengthens your whole body can keep your balanced while exercises as squats and dead lifts can provide a extra safety net.

Dave, I do not agree with your claim that a traceur will always have to push him or herself at a maximal physical level. Especially, in the context of landing ability this would be potentially dangerous. I do not believe extra strength has to go hand in hand with bigger risk. Your level of control and technique should decide what you should or shouldn’t attempt.
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Re: Searching For Teams To Sponsor!

Postby Dave » Sun Oct 03, 2010 6:29 pm

The best way to improve landings is to practise landings. That way you improve all the aspects of landing, as opposed to just one.

You get better at what you practise. You get better at landing small drops by practising landing small drops. You'll get a little bit better at small drops if you practise big drops, but really that's not the main point of practising near your limit. Practising things that are near your limit help you push past your limit, to increase what's possible for you.
If you want to get better at things you can already do then you need to practise doing them.

You need to be challenged to improve, and improvement is the whole purpose of Parkour. If you're going to use Parkour to improve with respect to what's possible for you then the movement you practise needs to challenge you. Working near your limits is essential for Parkour.
Of course it's dangerous (and the same danger exists with weights), that's why it's important to learn how to find your limits safely. The safest way to learn this is when your limits are small.
There is more force involved in a 6 foot jump than with a 3 foot jump. Greater forces result in greater injuries when something goes wrong, because even if your muscles are stronger there are other parts of you that aren't.
~ Dave

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Re: Searching For Teams To Sponsor!

Postby Rob-F » Sun Oct 03, 2010 11:20 pm

:lol:
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Re: Searching For Teams To Sponsor!

Postby NathNinetyOne » Mon Jul 16, 2012 12:45 pm

Sponsored by monster now... Get on my level noobs
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