Searching For Teams To Sponsor!

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Searching For Teams To Sponsor!

Postby sNk » Wed Sep 15, 2010 6:57 am

Image
Vimflow Parkour was founded on the 1st January 2009, lead by Mark 'YoJimBo' Evans and co-managed by Stephen 'Cpt Steve' Wall. Vimflow are based in Medway, they train in that location, notably Rochester. They also jam out of the Medway towns in other areas of Kent such as Swale, Thanet, Dartford, Maidstone, Canterbury and Shepway. The known out of Kent training includes areas of London and Sussex.

We are looking for teams in the northwest to join under the Vimflow Name.
this basically means that we will support you in all the way, we can organise trips down to London and upto Manchester.
We can get a community together and start something big.


Maybe you would like to start a team? Vimflow will also support you!

Vimflow currently has a website but is due to upgrade for shortly, we also have a monthly magazine dedicated to parkour.

If your team is interested sponsorship and partnership with Vimflow please contact me via the forums.
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Re: Searching For Teams To Sponsor!

Postby Dave » Wed Sep 15, 2010 1:46 pm

Hi

I'd like to point out a few things that you may or may not be aware of.

Firstly, Northern Parkour is a friendly, cooperative community. We are completely against the idea of teams, elites and corporate identities.

Secondly, sponsorship is irrelevant for Parkour because you don't need money in order to train. Parkour is not about making money or becoming famous, it's about self-development and getting past the obstacles you face in life. If you're practising because you want to become known, and sponsored, or work with the media then you've completely misunderstood what Parkour is.

Thirdly, the Parkour community has no need of a magazine at the moment. There is very little in the way of useful information in the first two of your issues and some of the advice you are giving is both wrong and dangerous. In particular, the advice about warming up on a full stomach, static stretching in the warm-up, the lack of variety in the warm-up, recommending the KSwiss Ariakes, discouraging barefoot training, associating somersaults with Parkour (Issue 1), using Parkour to advertise unrelated products, encouraging gym usage, refering to static holds as parkour movements and doing parkour because you 'fit in' with a group (Issue 2).

In short, you're making some very basic mistakes. I think you need to get a lot more experience of Parkour before presenting yourselves as a source of support for other groups around the country.

Finally, please don't spam your adverts on our website.

Thanks
~ Dave

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Re: Searching For Teams To Sponsor!

Postby cupofcoldtea » Wed Sep 15, 2010 10:43 pm

WIN ^
Defeat is a state of mind. No-one is ever truly defeated until they accept defeat as a reality - Bruce Lee
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Re: Searching For Teams To Sponsor!

Postby playhater » Thu Sep 16, 2010 12:18 am

Yeah I mostly agree with Dave...

Warming up on a full stomach so you don't lose vigour? No, It's likely you'll see your food again if you do anything even remotely intense

Against training in plimsoles/barefoot because it hurts your feet? No, learn how to land and it doesn't hurt (balls of your feet)

Bananas are instant energy? No, as far as I know they release energy slowly rather than stuff like caffiene drinks which is relatively instant

etc etc, to me you look like a bunch of moshers (and you're music taste pretty much confirmed to me me that you were) who don't know what they're doing... Go and meet other people and train with them so you can learn how to do parkour efficiently and safely.

Ut ohhhhh I said mostly, right yeah... Gyms are a much more efficient way of getting stronger Dave, in terms of body weight training/methode naturelle you may find the exercises more fun and they may well but I think this is the bottom line right here. You're coniditioning to get stronger... I assume, and being stronger to overcome obstacles more efficiently. So from this we can deduce that 'greater strength = increased efficiency' (there is a definite correlation until approaching extreme strength because of muscle mass etc). Going to the gym IS a faster way of gaining strength, weighted Bulgarian Split Squats and weighted standard Squats will get you stronger quadriceps (main jumping muscle?) than I'm pretty sure any outdoor workout that you can even think of and I'm fairly sure the same can be said for any muscle in the body presuming you do the correct excercise for the muscle you wish to enhance. For that reason I believe that going to a gym to get stronger will inturn make me more efficient in the area's you wish to be in a shorter time period and to be efficient is basically effictive/'none time wasting' and conditioning on the street is... Timewasting :)

Also training the other part of becoming more efficient would be to practice overcoming an obstacle because in practicing you learn how to deal with it in an efficient way and have a better understanding in general of how you could overcome said obstacle in a different scenario. Through practicing you learn and this learning gives you the knowledge to apply in different environments that you may not be familiar with.

To anyone this may concern, stop coniditioning inefficiently, train l'art du placement efficiently, If you don't think you're strong enough go to the gym and come back in 6 months x3 stronger than you would have been drilling climbups and doing push up circles :)

Also if I'm wrong and you're not conditioning to get stronger, don't read all of it!
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Re: Searching For Teams To Sponsor!

Postby Robin_a » Thu Sep 16, 2010 12:59 am

i'm starting a team.
team sapt (team super awesome parkour team)
if anyone is interested in joining i will be holding try outs tomorrow.
we will train 4 days a week
day 1. filming and photography
day 2. editing
day 3. flips
day 4. advanced editing (adding extra fish eye effects and adobe stuff)

i think that this is a great opportunity for any practitioner of parkour.
i look forward to this bold new endeavour as you obviously do as well.
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Re: Searching For Teams To Sponsor!

Postby David Bray » Thu Sep 16, 2010 9:52 am

Sorry man, you put filming in a list of training days. Pretty contradictory right there.

And try outs

and team

and fish eye
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Re: Searching For Teams To Sponsor!

Postby Obsidian » Thu Sep 16, 2010 11:17 am

I'm fairly certain that Robin's post wasn't entirely serious ;)
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Re: Searching For Teams To Sponsor!

Postby Oldboy » Thu Sep 16, 2010 1:47 pm

Robin_a wrote:i'm starting a team.
team sapt (team super awesome parkour team)
if anyone is interested in joining i will be holding try outs tomorrow.
we will train 4 days a week
day 1. filming and photography
day 2. editing
day 3. flips
day 4. advanced editing (adding extra fish eye effects and adobe stuff)
.


I'm interested, but only if we can get sponsorship by some sort of high energy drink brand that has been scientifically proven to improve flips by at least 20%, oh and it's got to be a luminous colour.
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Re: Searching For Teams To Sponsor!

Postby Robin_a » Thu Sep 16, 2010 3:44 pm

High caffeine drinks have been scientific proven to increase rotation by a factor of 2 and if you also factor in newtons 4 law of motion... a drink like mountain dew energy can increase your flips by almost 24%! and that correlates to 20% better parkour, due to the fact that it looks cooler...scientific fact.
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Re: Searching For Teams To Sponsor!

Postby playhater » Thu Sep 16, 2010 10:53 pm

If you take into account Newtons Law of universial gravititation then:

you can safely assume that gravity has less of an affect on you whilst caffiene is running through the body, so the more you drink the less susceptible you are to gravity so you'll be able to jump higher and shit and do madder flips :mrgreen:
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Re: Searching For Teams To Sponsor!

Postby Rob-F » Fri Sep 17, 2010 4:25 pm

If one of the team brings a laptop out we can edit between doing flips off big drops!
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Re: Searching For Teams To Sponsor!

Postby Hannibal » Fri Sep 17, 2010 4:57 pm

:evil:
Last edited by Hannibal on Sun Sep 19, 2010 11:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Searching For Teams To Sponsor!

Postby jetpack » Fri Sep 17, 2010 10:22 pm

Guys I've just got off the phone from Nike and they're interested, but only if we use their Darts. This would allow us the kong vault 3 yards further!
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Re: Searching For Teams To Sponsor!

Postby mcquade » Sun Sep 19, 2010 2:05 pm

A little off topic here, sorry.
playhater wrote:Gyms are a much more efficient way of getting stronger Dave, in terms of body weight training/methode naturelle you may find the exercises more fun and they may well but I think this is the bottom line right here. You're coniditioning to get stronger... I assume, and being stronger to overcome obstacles more efficiently. So from this we can deduce that 'greater strength = increased efficiency' (there is a definite correlation until approaching extreme strength because of muscle mass etc). Going to the gym IS a faster way of gaining strength, weighted Bulgarian Split Squats and weighted standard Squats will get you stronger quadriceps (main jumping muscle?) than I'm pretty sure any outdoor workout that you can even think of and I'm fairly sure the same can be said for any muscle in the body presuming you do the correct excercise for the muscle you wish to enhance. For that reason I believe that going to a gym to get stronger will inturn make me more efficient in the area's you wish to be in a shorter time period and to be efficient is basically effictive/'none time wasting' and conditioning on the street is... Timewasting :)

Also training the other part of becoming more efficient would be to practice overcoming an obstacle because in practicing you learn how to deal with it in an efficient way and have a better understanding in general of how you could overcome said obstacle in a different scenario. Through practicing you learn and this learning gives you the knowledge to apply in different environments that you may not be familiar with.

To anyone this may concern, stop coniditioning inefficiently, train l'art du placement efficiently, If you don't think you're strong enough go to the gym and come back in 6 months x3 stronger than you would have been drilling climbups and doing push up circles :)

Also if I'm wrong and you're not conditioning to get stronger, don't read all of it!

Firstly you seem to use the term "going to a gym" in place of weight training they are FAR from being the same thing. Why do you need a gym to do a Bulgarian split squat? Secondly why are you saying all this? I can't find any mention of conditioning or strength training elsewhere in this thread.

There are advantages and disadvantages of weight training when compared with bodyweight (or any other form of training for that matter), and you will discover them over time. What I will say is no method is complete so don't be absolute with what you say. There is always a downside. For example weight training tends to isolate the major muscle groups leading to a slightly less practical form of strength as well as increased risk of injury. Weight training (with respect to parkour) means you are teaching your body to be strong through motions that might not be associated with how you move naturally and therefore you are not teaching your body to move in the way you want.

If you were actually talking about training in gyms then the list of disadvantages grows considerably. I'm sure you can appreciate that weights machines and CV equipment are very poor compared to their free-weight and outside respective counterparts.
That leaves training free-weights in a gym. In which case your spirit is the thing to consider.

Basically don't close off to methods of training, they all exist for a reason. Find that reason and then make an informed judgement.

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Re: Searching For Teams To Sponsor!

Postby playhater » Sun Sep 19, 2010 4:12 pm

Dave wrote: There is very little in the way of useful information in the first two of your issues and some of the advice you are giving is both wrong and dangerous.


Dave wrote: encouraging gym usage,



Dave wrote: encouraging gym usage,is both wrong and dangerous.


The reason for writing ^

I didn't say you needed a gym to do a bulgarian split squat or to do any exercise, I merely pointed out that your muscles would be stronger if you went to a gym to strength train as they provide weights(in essence).

I believe the only reason the alternative methods exist is so either people can actively show how indifferent they are OR because they can't afford/don't want to pay for weights/gym membership.

There has to be a reason that for most "sports" the best athletes use gyms and it's probably not because bodyweight training is better :)
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Re: Searching For Teams To Sponsor!

Postby Dave » Mon Sep 20, 2010 1:40 pm

The reason that many professional sportsmen use weights is because of the limited nature of sports. Sports have very specific goals, use a limited number of actions, and have a short duration. The number of different abilities you use in a sport is very restricted and when you only need the exercise to improve one ability you can get away with using exercises that are also very limited, like lifting weights.

The reason that advising all Parkour practitioners to use weight training is wrong is because they are two different forms of exercise aiming to improve you in different ways. Parkour practitioners definitely should try and improve with different methods besides movement, but there is no other type of training that will definitely be appropriate to all practitioners. Training beyond movement is unique to each practitioner.

The reason weight training is dangerous is that it combines fast increase in muscle strength with little variety, introducing a hugely artificial need for correct form. Form is irrelevant when you're moving naturally around your environment because the environment itself gives you exercise a huge variety, but if you're going to limit yourself to performing the exact same movement repeatedly you need to ensure that you perform it in such a way as to keep the demands on other body parts equally balanced. The same applies (to a lesser extent) to the drilling of practical movements that some people use in Parkour, when again you're moving unnaturally, but not to free, natural movement.

The limited nature of weight training is what makes it seem so effective. By concentrating on just one specific strength it is able to produce fast improvement in that one area. However for Parkour and the real world that doesn't make it a better exercise because we need to develop a variety of abilities to deal with the obstacles we come across.

Exercise that challenges your abilities will always result in improvement of those abilities. If you use exercises that are limited in variety then you'll improve in only a few, specific ways.
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Re: Searching For Teams To Sponsor!

Postby Rob-F » Mon Sep 20, 2010 4:17 pm

Noone suggested exclusively training with weights, it was suggested as complimentary conditioning as far as I understood it. Most practitioners, while doing any one conditioning exercise, weighted or not, won't just do it once, they'll continue to do it during conditioning sessions until the end of time. (pressups in circles.) They'll also usually have a goal, that doing this exercise will help them with (Hey, my climbups aren't as fast as I'd like, I'll do pullups), and in this same sense weight training can be used to compliment the training(Hey my vertical/standing jumps aren't big enough, my legs aren't strong enough to support my landings even though I have good technique, I'll do weighted squats to help with this.). Training with weights doesn't mean you can't do anything else, you can continue to train parkour, condition through movement, do whatever you like. Increased resistance will aid in building dynamic strength(which is good :idea: ), weights are a simple way to do this.

But then again it doesn't really matter.
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Re: Searching For Teams To Sponsor!

Postby Dave » Tue Sep 21, 2010 2:42 am

Yes, it was recommended as an addition to regular training, but it's not a useful addition for everyone. It's only useful for the people who don't mind sacrificing other improvements for faster improvement in muscle strength.
Your muscles get stronger, but you don't practise using them in a practical way. When you are moving they have to deal with impact, balance, and unexpected demands as well as simply generating force, but lifting weights only trains the latter. This means you can jump higher but not land as effectively. Move faster but less controlled.
Any physical gains you get from lifting weights will leave you unbalanced, particularly in terms of physical/mental development, which will leave you less safe. You stay safe by not attempting things that you can't do safely. If you've got stronger without going through the continual tests that come from training using practical tasks then you won't know what you can do safely because you'll have no points of reference.

imbalances can be corrected by doing other training that is unbalanced in the opposite way. However, in the Parkour reality, many of the mental skills can't be developed separately from physical challenges. This means that physically stronger people need to use more physically demanding challenges to develop mental strength. Since it's the mental strength that keeps you safe, this leaves you learning the principles of safety in much more dangerous situations.

Weights offer a slight physical advantage in the short term. If that's what you want then by all means use them, but Parkour is designed to develop lasting, long-term strength that is generally more practical for real world obstacles. I think for most people lifting weights won't be as useful.
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Re: Searching For Teams To Sponsor!

Postby mcquade » Mon Sep 27, 2010 1:54 pm

Dave wrote:Weights offer a slight physical advantage in the short term. If that's what you want then by all means use them, but Parkour is designed to develop lasting, long-term strength
[The implication of] That is simply not true! I can't believe you would say that. Since when are the effects of weight training short term? You could argue they are if the person stops training after a short (few months at most) time lifting weights that their body will slowly revert back to its original state, (the same is true with parkour) but we're not talking about stopping training in any sense.

I don't think you sacrifice too much when it comes to using weight training as a compliment. I think the main disadvantages are muscle fatigue and cost.

Using weight training as a compliment to parkour means doing more parkour training than weight training. This in turn means that as specific areas of your body will get unevenly stronger due to the weight training but the rest of your body is given the time and training to catch up. Well almost anyway*. I'm finding this hard to put into words so I'll give an example.

Say you are training bicep curls (the mother of all unuseful weighted exercises :wink: ) because you know you use your biceps when performing a pull up. Then when your biceps get stronger they start putting extra "unnecessary"** strain on other areas of your body (back, shoulders and forearms) as the other areas try to keep up when performing the movement. However because you are working those other areas harder when performing a pull up they will adapt more (by getting stronger, faster) and your body will even out... Until you next do bicep curls.
There are counter arguments like how when you have the imbalance you will perform with bad techniques which along with the extra strain can cause injury. However you have to remember that it is a constant process and you will never have large imbalances. You can't create big imbalances overnight. I mean if you do bicep curls once a week and train pull ups three times a week (like if you used weight training as a supplement to parkour training) then you will never have a large imbalance as your body has a lot of time to even out and these effects will be minimal.

The same goes for balance and control. If you are training parkour more than weight training then the effects of weight training would be so gradual your movement would adapt without you even realising.

It is a different story if you go away and do weight training for a while before returning to parkour... But probably not as bad as what most people spending time on parkour forums would make out.

*This constant cycle means the rest of your body never quite catches up. Until you stop weight training anyway.

**People like to use the word unnecessary when talking about extra strain on your muscles/joints/anything. It's often a nothing word used to add emphasis... Exercising IS putting unnecessary strain on your body!

And my final disclaimer is that I've been talking purely physical, I have completely neglected the mental aspects.


Adam: Don't confuse weight training with going to the gym. Like I said before they are two different things. Most people that go to a gym don't use free weights. And bring up the topic at training there is a fair bit to say about why athletes use weighted training.

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Re: Searching For Teams To Sponsor!

Postby Peter_M » Mon Sep 27, 2010 8:03 pm

Moreover,
Weighttraining is known not only to strenghten your muscles but also to strenghten your tendons, ligaments and even your bones. Thus, weighttraining is a good supplement on your training because it will decrease the chance of injury.

This effect MIGHT* be gained by countless jumps, but those jumps you did, you had to do without this protection. This might be okay for young and fit beginners, but this might not be the case for the sedentary or elderly.

*I've put the might in capslock because this is highly debatable. The forces needed to stimulate your body to initate the above process will probably be higher than a jump a beginner would want to drill. Doing big drops and taking the risk of these big drops to reduce the risk of doing smaller drops sounds a bit silly, doesn't it.
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