Simple Yet Somewhat Scary

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Simple Yet Somewhat Scary

Postby NorthEastFlow » Mon Aug 23, 2010 6:25 pm

I was just wondering if anybody had any advice on doing kong's? i can do monkeys and small kongs but want to learn how to do bigger ones e.g. dive over a small wall and kong the other side. i have a place perfect for this but am scared ill either fall or knee the other side.
any advice?
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Re: Simple Yet Somewhat Scary

Postby Nicolas » Thu Sep 09, 2010 9:26 pm

so far, i have only managed really basic kongs, but i became confident with them by repeatedly doing them over a low balance beam in a gym until I could do them well and confidently. i then went out to where i usually train and can now do them over slightly higher rails and walls quite happily.
Start off with standing kongs, position yourself a couple feet away from the obstacle, place your hands on it at the same time as jumping forwards. keep doing them until you are happy you can do them. then try it with a run-up. once you are comfortable with that, try a slightly higher obstacle. keep doing them until you are comfortable.

"dive over a small wall and kong the other side"

what you will want to do is find something like two low rails close together. simply pretend that it is something like a picnic table and place your hands on the second rail and perform a normal kong :)
and if you are worried about kneeing yourself, keep your legs tucked!!! really, really do. it hurts like a -blam!- hit my knee on sunday, still slightly sore now. so yeah, keep your legs straight to start the kong, and the tuck them around when your hands hit the obstacle. :)
hope this helps

^ please note i may be talking absoulte gibberish, in which case, please disregard all of the above :)
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Re: Simple Yet Somewhat Scary

Postby Dave » Wed Sep 15, 2010 2:58 pm

Practise them on low obstacles, or even flat ground. That will get you used to using your arms properly and leaning forwards far enough. Those are the two main problems people face with that movement.

Practise crawling, practise climbing, practise other vaults. Learn to trust your arms.
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Re: Simple Yet Somewhat Scary

Postby Capo » Thu Sep 16, 2010 11:34 pm

Just practice the biggest one you can do until it comes natural, dont waste your time crawling round looking like an idiot
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Re: Simple Yet Somewhat Scary

Postby Dave » Fri Sep 17, 2010 10:05 am

What he's trying to say is that you should build up gradually, starting from what you can do now, and then trying something slightly harder. That's perfectly correct. However, if you're afraid of diving into vaults then you need to start with the basic version of diving, which is leaning forwards. Also, it's always worth checking you can do the fundamental parts separately before moving on to harder things, just in case something goes wrong and you need to catch yourself from falling.

Crawling on your hands and feet starts by putting your body in the right position for the vault, leaning forwards so that you are horizontal. If you can crawl fast like that then you know that your arms can handle at least some dynamic movement in that position.

Fast crawling easily transitions into vaulting low obstacles. Instead of moving one arm or a leg at a time, move both hands together and both feet together, so that you are moving in short hops. As you get faster this becomes more like a gallop, where at times you leave the ground completely.

If you can gallop like that, start to notice where your feet land with respect to where your hands were. At some point, you'll be confident and practised enough at controlling your weight with your hands and arms so that you can put your feet down in front of where your hands were.

That's the middle component of the vault right there. If your hands were on a wall, your feet would come down after it, onto the ground. From there you can start diving forwards more or practising a higher obstacle.

It might only take you 10 mins to run through this basic progression , but this way you'll know for sure that you can do the necessary parts of the movement. If you have problems and need to take longer, don't worry about it. At least you'll know exactly which part it is that you're having problems with.
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Re: Simple Yet Somewhat Scary

Postby Capo » Fri Sep 17, 2010 9:08 pm

I know it seems like i'm just arguing with you for the sake of it Dave but thats not the case.

NEF - The guys with the biggest kongs/die kongs in the country - pip anderson, toby segar, phil doyle, ben jenx jenkin have never crawled a day in their life - it's all about repetition and building up from the bottom. Anybody with half a brain cell can take a very small dive into a kong/catpass so just find a distance your comfortable with and slowly take yourself out of your comfort zone and it will grow in time - nothing will click over night just keep at it and practice practice practice
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Re: Simple Yet Somewhat Scary

Postby Dave » Mon Sep 20, 2010 12:31 am

If you're building up from the bottom then learning vaulting means starting with crawling. Crawling is just a more basic version of the same basic movement.

If you're a teenage male with reasonable physical ability then you might be able to skip stages without noticing any problems. If you're observant then you might notice that you're not as adaptable and take longer to learn new movements than people who have practised the fundamental movements more, but if you're young and active you'll learn fairly quickly anyway so it might not seem like much of a problem.

The problem with trying to skip basic stages, even if it seems like you can perform the movement, is that it doesn't give your body a chance to strengthen. Each part of your body can only strengthen at a certain rate, some parts faster than others, and if you try and progress faster than your body's capable of it will cause damage. This damage isn't always noticeable immediately, especially if you're young and your body's constantly changing anyway, but it's an unavoidable result of trying to improve too quickly.

Most of us never use our arms to control movement before we start Parkour. All we do is walk and occasionally run, neither of which uses the arms actively. When we start using our arms, therefore, almost all of us need to start from the very bottom. That means that as well as strengthening our muscles to perform the movement, we also need to strengthen the bones, the ligaments, the tendons, the joint capsules and the others parts that prevent injury too.

Muscles strengthen faster than the other parts, so what you can physically do is not the same as what you can do without injury. Yes, if you want to skip the basic stages you can probably do it, but it will cause you problems somewhere. You can't cheat the laws of nature.
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Re: Simple Yet Somewhat Scary

Postby fuzzy » Mon Sep 20, 2010 5:41 pm

I'll vouch for the above from an 'oldy' (>_< I'm not old!!)... Also a couple of traceurs I've met have wrist problems in particular, from not doing enough fundamental work with them before getting serious about kongs. Really really, our bodies are not what youngsters sometimes believe they are... Some are lucky and have the bone strength already, others may be starting from further down the ladder towards fitness - genetically caused or otherwise :) If talking generally, it's probably better to incorporate all stages and be accepting (comments about people with half a brain cell don't help there I'm afraid) - I myself am nervous of leaning forwards now, having not really done so in the last 10yrs.
Defeat is not part of pk :)
Therefore pk will never die...

Discuss :D
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